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Frommark lewis1:3634/12.73Date Write2018-06-19 12:13:18
ToBill McGarrity0:0/0.0Date Arrived2018-06-19 20:10:09
SubjKeeping it private.
Attr

On 2018 Jun 19 08:29:00, you wrote to me:

BM>>>>> Yet there were members of Z2 who did vote

MvV>>>> So you say. But where is the list of voters to confirm it?

BM>>> Again, you use cliched symantics to justify your cause. Show me
BM>>> where they didn't vote?

ml>> what's worse is that he is trying to apply today's methodologies to
ml>> the processes of the 1980s... that definitely won't work and he knows
ml>> it...

BM> The methodologies really have no bearing on the simple outcome on
BM> whether Z2 voted.

actually, they do simply because mvdv is tryinig to use vote password lists to
justify or not the P4 selection process and we didn't use that method back
then... we cast simple private votes by writing a netmail to our *C and listing
our vote so it could be tallied... i know because i voted in that selection
process...

ml>> it was certainly agreed that the process described in P4 would be
ml>> used since there was no existing process in place... one of the
ml>> positive ideas was that it would help to flesh out the process so
ml>> corrections might be made if needed... apparently there were none
ml>> needed...

BM> I guess but in all honesty, some areas do need to be put through a
BM> finer toothed comb.

true but apparently it wasn't enough of a problem for anyone to be bothered by
it and to start a referendum to correct it back then...

ml>> certainly Z2 votes were counted... possibly also Z3 and Z4 if they
ml>> were in operation before Jun of '89... they may have voted as nets if
ml>> their zones were not established yet... out of the 111 votes that
ml>> were not Z1, the majority of them had to be Z2 just due to the fact
ml>> of the number of nodes in Z2 compared to Z3 and Z4...

BM> Does it really matter now?

apparently it does because you have some like mvdv trying to negate the process
when they have used the same tactic (majority wins so shut up about it) against
others in similar selection processes...

BM> As you said, who knows if Z3 and Z4 were in operation and as such,

it is easy enough to see via historic nodelists... plus my site has a set of
pages documenting the ICs, ZCs and Z1RCs... especially the IC and ZC pages help
but there's no dates specified... there are, however, pointers to which
nodelists were used so they could also be used to note pretty close the date of
their appearance...

http://nodehist.fidonet.org.ua/?address=3%3A3%2F0

shows that Z3 was an entity by at least 1987 Oct 16... Alwyn Smith first
appeared in the nodelist as 3:640/0 on 1987 Oct 16...

and this one

http://nodehist.fidonet.org.ua/?address=4%3A4%2F0

shows that Z4 was an entity by at least 1989 Jun 16... Pablo Kleinman's
currently known first appearance was as 1:18/4 on 1987 Oct 16... PSST! look at
that! a regional independent back in 1987!...
P4 was put into effect 1989 Jun 09 so it is very concievible that Pablo
Kleinman (1st Z4C) and Alwyn Smith both participated in the P4 selection
process...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it
wrong...
... D'Bridge will do that for you. Even get you your breakfast.
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* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)